尼泊尔共产党（毛主义）首席和谈代表马海拉（ Mahara）接受采访
Q: How long has it been since you were here last?
问：从你上次到这里（加德满都）过了多久了？
Krishna Bahadur Mahara: It's been about two and a half years.
马海拉：大约两年半了。
Q: Didn't you come to the capital after the second round of talks?
问：第二次和谈后你没有来国首都吗？
Mahara: We held talks in Hapure after the talks in Kathmandu. The talks ended immediately in Hapure. Since the Doramba incident, we have not appeared in public.
马海拉：加德满都和谈之后，我们在Hapure继续谈判。谈判很快在Hapure结束了。自从 Doramba 事件后，我们就没有公开露面。
Q: The main reason why you are in the capital this time is to find a solution to the problems?
问：你这次来加德满都的主要原因是为了解决当前问题吗？
Mahara: It's obvious. Not only this time but every time we have come for talks, it has been to give new directions to the people, to make a new Nepal and for bigger social transformation. We have this belief that the above objectives can be reached through talks. We have always believed that there can be peaceful solutions too. A lot has changed in the political scene this time. So, we are here because we seriously believe that we can go for the constituent assembly.
马海拉：显然是的。不仅这次，每次我们来和谈都是因为发生了更大的社会变革而给人民以创建新尼泊尔的新指示。
Q: The newly formed government - and the reinstated House of Representatives (HoR) – has made some fresh announcements in favour of the people. Has that helped?
问：新组建的政府和被恢复的议会已经公布了一些有利于人民的宣言。难道不是吗？
Mahara: It has eased things. In contrast the present government is slightly different from earlier governments. Nevertheless the scenario cannot be considered to be fully acceptable as yet. There still remains a lot to be sorted out.
马海拉：问题不那么简单。相对来讲，当前政府是和早先的政府有点不同。然而形势仍并不令人很满意，还有许多遗留问题需要解决。
Q: Your party has critically welcomed the House Proclamation. It's said Maoists were consulted before making the announcement…
问：你们党有条件地接受了议会决议。据说，在决议公布前，毛派参与了讨论。
Mahara: Our formal reaction to the Proclamation has already been made public. We have welcomed religious secularism and the stripping of many of the king's powers. This is politically a very positive move. But the leaders of many political parties have said that it has made the house fully sovereign. But people are yet to be made sovereign. Therefore this Proclamation is incomplete. Comparatively, this has been a step forward. We, however, wait to see the practical implementation of the announcement. The verdict of the people's revolution is constituent assembly. The basis of the movement is the 12-point understanding between the parties and CPN (Maoist). Constituent assembly is the heart of the revolution. The ultimate aim of the revolution is republicanism.
马海拉：我们对于决议的正式表态已经公布。我们同意虔诚的世俗主义和剥夺王权。这在政治上是积极的一步。但是许多政党的领导人说他们已经使议会享有充分权力。可人民还是无权。因此这个决议是不完整的。相对来讲，它是前进了一步。然而我们想看到决议的实际执行情况。人民革命的目标应是制宪会议。运动的基础是议会党派与尼泊尔共产党（毛主义）签定的12点协议。制宪会议是革命的核心。革命的最终目标是建立共和国。
We are not involved in the Proclamation. So we are apprehensive as to whether the parliamentary political parties will only work to improve and institutionalise the house and legitimise it rather than moving ahead in the direction of a constituent assembly. At least the government should have come to some agreement with our party prior to the Proclamation. It is either weakness or a conspiracy that the government failed to involve us.
我们并没有参与决议讨论。因此我们理解为什么议会政党只是改善并使议会合法化而不是朝着制宪会议的方向前进。至少政府在公布决议之前应和我党达成一些共识。政府不与我们沟通是软弱无能或阴谋的表现。
Q: The positive moves by the government have created a wave of support in favour of the government and the parties. You have been positive too. But don't you wonder why this is being done before the talks with the Maoists?
问：政府的积极表现已经为政府和议会党派赢得了广泛支持，你们也是支持的。而你们不想知道为什么和谈前会公布这项决议吗？
Mahara: Yes in some regards we are thinking that. Parliamentary parties have been fighting in the streets for about one and a half years now. Although they were trying to make the movement effective they were not able to. Everybody has seen the face of the movement before and after the 12-point understanding. Since the 12-point understanding was central in taking the movement to the people, our role and participation has been clearly understood in the political circle. We and the people know this. We have had a major role in the movement and we share a major contribution. So if the leaders fail here the people will assess the parties' weakness. If they don’t consult with our party and think that they can do everything on their own, solutions will be difficult to find. It will push us deeper into the maze of problems. If that is the case, we will step forward and lead the people's will and verdict.
马海拉：是的，我们正在考虑这些事。议会党派已在街上斗争了约一年半了。尽管他们一直努力想使运动产生效果，可他们做不到。所有人都看到了12点协议签定后运动发生的变化。既然12点协议是人民运动的核心，那么我们在政治运动中的参与和起的作用就显而易见了。我们党和人民懂得这一点。我们党在运动中发挥了主要作用，做出了主要贡献。那么如果议会党领导人不了解这一点，人民会认识到他们的弱点。如果他们不和我们商量而认为他们自己能处理一切，那么问题会很难解决。那会把我们推向问题的实质。如果情况是那样，我们将前进并领导人民运动。
Q: Does this mean returning to the armed insurgency?
问：那是否意味着恢复武装起义？
马海拉：要知道，我们在发动革命前是进行和平斗争的。我们也参与过议会政治。我们的40点要求是通过和平方式提出的。
Mahara: What no one should be mistaken about is that we were taking a peaceful way before our revolution started. We practised parliamentary politics too. When we presented the 40-point demand, we took up peaceful means. We did not choose to start a war; we were compelled to. We came to talks twice and maintained sincerity there too.
我们当初并没有选择战争，我们是被迫那样做的。我们曾两次真诚地与政府和谈。
Our main agenda was always a constituent assembly. So it was not that we spoiled the talks and returned. Secondly, this time too we have come with sincerity and a sense of responsibility. Our peaceful aspirations have always been there in the past and present and they will be there in the future too. But if any force tries to conspire and work against the people's will, we might be compelled to take that way despite our unwillingness. We hope that will not happen.
我们主要目标仍是制宪会议。我们不是破坏了和谈而又回来再谈。这次我们仍是以真诚和负责的态度来谈判的。我们对和平的渴望在过去、现在始终未变，将来也不会。但是如果有人试图搞阴谋反对人民的意愿，那么我们将被迫做我们不愿做的事。我们不希望那样。
Q: The present House, reinstated by the pressure of the movement, is a different House and has declared itself all-powerful and sovereign. When you raise unnecessary doubts it may fail to work as per the people's aspirations?
当前的议会是由于人民的压力而恢复的，与从前不同，它全部自己拥有全部政权。如果你们表示怀疑，那不是违背人民的意志吗？
Mahara: No, it's not like that. Where is our place in the present House of Representatives? We are the political force who is not represented in the present House. Not only us, there are several other political forces who are outside the present House. There are only the representatives of the seven parties. And it's false that the mass movement was launched only by the seven parties. There are parliamentarians (in the present House) elected seven or eight years ago. People have advanced in this period. The House does not represent the people's mandate as expressed during the movement. The base of the House is the Constitution of 1990, which we say is a regressive constitution. We are against the 1990 Constitution. Talking truthfully, there are representatives (in the House) who were against the mass movement.
马海拉：不，不应这样认识。我们在当前议会中的代表在哪呢？我们是不代表议会的政治力量。不只是我们，还有其他一些政治力量没有参加议会。议会中只有七党联盟的代表。以为群众运动仅仅是由七党联盟发动的是不对的。在当前的议会中有7、8年前选出的议员，而人民在这期间已经前进了。议会不能满足人民在运动中提出的要求。当前议会的基础仍是1990年宪法，因此我们称之为回归的议会。我们反对1990年宪法。坦白地说，议会中的代表是反对人民运动的。
Q: So which mechanism can be formed to include the Maoists?
那么应建立一个什么样的包括毛派的机构呢？
Mahara: The central committee meeting of our party has put forth a 10-point roadmap. A broad political conference should be organized comprising all the political forces including the representation of all the levels of the seven parties, the Maoists and civil society. We have been stressing for a roundtable conference for the last few years. That conference will be more powerful than the present House and will work as an interim constitution. The all-powerful interim government formed afterwards will hold the constituent assembly elections.
马海拉：我们党中央委员会会议已经提出了10点路线纲领。召开一个有七党联盟各级代表，毛派和公民社会所有政治力量参加的广泛的政治会议。在过去的几年中我们一直在强调召开圆桌会议。那样根据一部临时宪法召开的会议会比当前的议会更有力量。随后，由全权的临时政府进行制宪会议选举。
Q: Nepali people want peace and the present government has been somewhat successful in establishing it. What has hampered taking the talks process ahead?
问：尼泊尔人民想要和平而当前政府在一定程度上成功地实现了和平。还有什么会妨碍和谈进程呢？
Mahara: The government has taken a positive step towards creating an environment conducive for talks. But the government should not confine itself just to that. Doubts will be raised if it gets stuck just there.
马海拉：政府为创造和谈的有利环境采取了一个积极步骤。但这还不够，问题就在这里。
Q: Perhaps, since the announcement has been made to go for constituent assembly elections, there should be no uncertainties?
问：或许，如果宣言是为了召开制宪会议，就不会有什么疑问了？
Mahara: Yes, theoretically an agreement has been reached. We shouldn’t forget the experience of the present House as it has approved various proposals of national interest. But such decisions are still pending so far. To be optimistic, the government itself has presented such proposals in the parliament and that all the oppositions have welcomed them. It's totally false that the proclamation has made the king powerless. The king is still in a position to hatch a conspiracy. There could still be interference by foreign powers. There are still some forces that do not want peace and stability in the country. There are such forces conspiring against us to stop us from the peace process. It can't be said that such forces, that committed incidents like Doramba, will not repeat their tactics against us. The whole peace process depends on how responsibly the seven-party government will come forward.
马海拉：是的，理论上我们已经达成了一项协议。我们不该忘记当前议会已经同意了一些和国家利益有关的建议。但是这些决议至今仍未通过。值得高兴的是，当初是政府自己提出的这些建议而所有的反对派都同意了。如果认为决议已经剥夺了王权，那就全错了。国王仍在搞阴谋。另外还有外国势力的干涉。一些人仍然不想要国家和平和稳定。一些人阴谋反对我们并阻止我们参与和平进程。这些人能制造出象Doramba那样的事件，就会用同样的手段反对我们。全部和平进程取决于七党联盟政府的负责任程度。
Q: Don't you believe that a conducive environment for the implementation of all the decisions exists since you have been collaborating with the seven parties for some time now?
自从你们和七个政党合作以来，难道你不认为目前已经具备一个决议履行的有利环境吗？
Mahara: This government is different than any others in the past. We have called it the seven-party government and not one of the old regimes. Saying that the present government is formed by the pressure of the mass movement, we mean that we are a part of the movement. We have come to assist the government. We have come here to collaborate with it, not to struggle. We will encourage and assist the government to take a concrete step towards constituent assembly elections. So, the talks this time will be different compared to the past two ones.
马海拉：这个政府与从前任何一个都不同。我们称之为七党政府而不是旧政权之一。由于当前政府是在人民运动的压力下组建的，而我们是运动的一部分。我们来帮助政府，我们来这里是与之合作的，而不是斗争。我们将鼓励和帮助朝着制宪会议选举的方向迈出具体的步伐。因此这次和谈与前两次不同。
Q: When will the talks begin?
问：和谈什么时候开始？
Mahara: We will start now. First the government should release all our political detainees. The government should not delay as it has expressed its commitment towards the 12-point understanding. The whereabouts of all our comrades who have disappeared at the hands of the past government should be made public. The government has responded responsibly on this issue. Talks should be held after completing all these tasks. We are for accomplishing the talks process as soon as possible. We have also stressed on quickly going for constituent assembly elections jointly.
马海拉：我们可以马上开始。首先，政府应该释放所有的政治犯。政府已经根据12点协议做出了承诺，它不应该再推迟。公开在旧政府手里失踪的我们同志的情况和所在地点。政府应该在这个问题上负起责任。和谈会在这些事情解决后开始。我们将尽可能完成和谈进程。我们还要尽快共同举行制宪会议选举。
eKantipur: So the whole process will move ahead after your participation in the government?
问：那么在你们加入政府后，整个进程会向前发展吗？
Mahara: We will not participate in the present government but will join the interim government. Before that the old constitution should be annulled and the new interim constitution should be drafted. After the formation of the interim constitution, all the organs of the state will be at the interim stage and through that phase it will be easier to go for a constituent assembly.
马海拉：我们不会加入当前政府，而会参加临时政府。旧宪法应被废除由新起草的临时宪法代替。临时宪法通过后，国家所有机构都处于临时阶段，这更有利于召开制宪会议。
Q: When will your Chairman Prachanda come for the final negotiations?
问：你们的普拉昌达主席什么时候来进行最终谈判？
Mahara: It depends on the climate of trust. All our senior comrades including the chairman will come for talks at the time of the final decision, when the process for the constituent assembly elections begins.
马海拉：那取决于信任程度。当制宪会议选举的进程开始时，我们所有的高级领导人都将来做出最终决定。
Q: Will Prachanda come only for the final signature?
问：普拉昌达只是来最后签字吗？
Mahara: Yes, our chairman will lead from our side and Prime Minister Girija Prasad Koirala, as the head of the seven parties, will sit for negotiations. For that we need to accomplish all the procedures.
马海拉：是，我党主席会领导我们一方与柯依拉腊领导的七党进行谈判。那时会完成所有进程。
Q: You seem to be assisting the government but at the same time you have intensified extortions and abductions. How will it be supportive in creating an environment for talks?
问：你们表面上要帮助政府可同时又加紧勒索和拐骗。那怎么有助于创造和谈环境呢？
Mahara: Hmm, I need to tell you a little bit about this. We recently studied the case of the industries shut in Bara and Parsa. We had begun asking donations with industrialists in the past. But this time the issue has been raised sharply. Arguments on the ordinary issues of donations, military (Maoists') demonstrations and abductions are rife. The elements that are against the talks, have attempted to break up the peace talks, by raising such issues. We have no option but to ask donations from the people for our army. We have directed all out cadres not to take money forcibly. Our friends have handed over the fake Maoists from Kathmandu as well. What has been said on abductions is false, who have not abducted anyone. Some people have come to us and asked us to call it abduction for security reasons. We have not demonstrated our arms in the city. We do not agree that the people are intimidated by the Maoists. A large section of the people are with us and that is why we have arrived at this position. The more the talks gain momentum the more such issues will decrease. There were several complications before reaching the 12-point understanding. The environment for collaboration was created after that. Politics will resolve every problem; there is no room to doubt us.
马海拉：关于这一点，我要向你讲明。我们最近调查了Bara 和 Parsa.两地企业关闭的情况。过去我们一直请求企业家捐款。而这次问题变的尖锐了。关于普通捐款问题，毛派军事示威和诱拐的争论开始普遍了。一些反对和谈并试图破坏和谈的人提出了这些问题。我们没有其他选择只有请求人民为我们的军队捐款。我们指示干部不要强取。我们的朋友也指出在加德满都有假毛派活动。关于诱拐是捏造的，我们没有诱拐任何人。一些人找到我们，是出于安全原因请求我们保护。我们没有在城市搞武装示威。我们不同意人民被毛派胁迫的说法。正因为有广大人民的支持，我们才发展到今天的程度。和谈取得的成果越多，这类谣言就会越少。在12点协议达成前也存在一些复杂问题，但后来合作环境还是建立了。
应该相信我们可以通过政治方式解决一切问题。
Q: Why do you ask for donations when the government has already said it is ready to allocate a budget for the Maoist army?
问：既然政府已经答应给毛派军队分配预算，你们为什么还要求捐款呢？
Mahara: We will seriously present this issue during the talks. We will stop asking donations from the people if the government provides the budget to our army.
我们会在和谈中认真地提出这一问题。如果政府为我们的军队提供预算，我们会停止募捐。
Q: How can the Maoist militia be managed before the constituent assembly elections?
在制宪会议选举前毛派游击队应怎样管理呢？
马海拉：我们不认为这是个大问题。如果政治协议达成，军队是容易管理的。问题不在我们军队一方而在尼泊尔王军。在过去的238年中，为了维护君主制，王军被用来镇压人民。如果相信尼泊尔王军现在在议会的控制下，一切都相安无事了，那就犯了个严重错误。我们提议重建国家和军队。一个新型国家军只能在我方军队和尼泊尔王军合并后建立。
Mahara: We have not taken it as a big issue. An army can easily be managed if a political solution is reached. The problem doesn’t lie with our army; it’s with the Royal Nepalese Army. The army (King's) was mobilized against the people and has been in favour of the monarchy for the last 238 years. It will be a serious mistake to believe that everything is all right just by saying that the RNA is now under the control of the House. We have proposed for a restructuring of the state and army. A new National Army can be formed after merging our army and the RNA.
There are no obstacles from our side to go for free and fair elections. Both the armies (RNA and Maoist) can be neutralized. It has been mentioned on the 12-point understanding that the armies can be kept under UN or any credible organization's supervision.
我们这边没有举行自由和公平选举的障碍。双方军队可以合并。军队可以在12点协议的基础上由联合国或其他可靠组织监督下管理。
Q: Will it be problematic, as the RNA has already been converted to the Nepali Army?
关于尼泊尔王军已经变成了尼泊尔国家军还有疑问吗？
Mahara: The RNA has been converted into the Nepali Army only in words not in practice. There are still aristocrats, feudalistic thoughts and opinions existing within the RNA, which cannot be changed overnight by one decision.
马海拉：尼泊尔王军只是在文字上而不是在实际上变成了尼泊尔国家军。尼泊尔王军中仍存在贵族，封建思想观念，这是不能通过决议在一夜间改变的。
Q: But, it has been mentioned that if the Nepal Army is weakened, problems might be created if the Maoists suddenly try to take control?
问：但是，要知道一旦尼泊尔国家军被削弱，毛派可能会突然控制局势。
Mahara: We have said (before and after reaching the 12-point understanding) that our army is everyone's army. We had even proposed the seven parties to induct their cadres in our army and take responsible positions. We are ready to make our army- the army of the seven parties. It will be a great delusion on their part if they trusted the king's army rather than that of the people's.
马海拉：我们已经在12点协议达成前后指出我们的军队是人民军队。我们甚至建议七党指示他们在我们军队中的干部负起责任。我们准备使我们的军队变成七党的军队。七党相信王军而不相信人民军队是不可思议的。
Q: When will the people get the chance to hear of peace?
人民什么时候可以迎来和平？
Mahara: We want to end this process as soon as possible. But it doesn’t depend only on our desire. We are hopeful that the people's dream will come true soon.
马海拉：我们想尽可能结束这个过程。但那并不仅取决于我们的愿望。我们希望人民的梦想会尽早成为现实。
Q: Have you begun talks with the government?
你们已经开始与政府和谈了吗？
Mahara: I have begun holding informal talks. We are pressuring the government to start the talks immediately. The government has still not been able to form a talks team. The government lacks seriousness. We, on the other hand, are already ready for talks.
马海拉：我们已经开始了非正式对话。我们迫使政府立即和谈。政府方面还没有组建和谈小组。政府不够重视，而我们已经准备好和谈。
(By Gunaraj Luitel and Ujir Magar)
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